Mark P. Fisher and Carl Lefever Join ACA’s CampWire Podcast to Talk Growth, Sustainability, and the Future of Camp

Camp leaders are passionate about creating meaningful experiences. They believe in the power of camp to change lives, build confidence, strengthen faith, and create lasting memories.

But creating those experiences requires more than great programming.

Recently, we had the opportunity to join Lauren McCullough on the American Camp Association’s CampWire Podcast to discuss one of the biggest challenges camp leaders face today: how to grow and sustain a camp while staying focused on the mission that matters most.

During the conversation, we explored everything from marketing and occupancy to leadership mindset, referrals, websites, and the importance of finding support when the challenges of camp leadership start to feel overwhelming.

At the heart of it all was a simple idea: camp changes lives—but only when people show up.

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Why Empty Beds Matter

One lesson has guided much of our work with camps over the years.

“You can’t minister to empty beds.”

Mark first heard that phrase more than three decades ago when he was hired as the first sales and marketing director at Sandy Cove. The organization’s president explained that marketing wasn’t separate from ministry—it was essential to it.

That idea continues to shape how we think about camp growth today.

An empty bed isn’t just unused capacity. It’s a child who doesn’t get to experience camp. It’s a family that misses an opportunity to reconnect. It’s a retreat group that never discovers a place where meaningful conversations can happen.

Growth isn’t about chasing bigger numbers for the sake of growth. It’s about creating more opportunities for people to experience the life-changing impact of camp.

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How We Found Our Way Into Camp

One of Lauren’s first questions was about our own camp stories and what drew us into this work.

For Carl, camp became personal through a family who operated a Christian camp. After working alongside them and helping with marketing, he saw firsthand how many people in the surrounding community simply didn’t know the camp existed.

As occupancy grew, so did the camp’s ability to serve more people, expand programs, support more staff, and create greater impact.

That experience shaped a core belief that continues to drive his work today.

“We’re not just impacting dollars. We’re impacting generations.”

For Mark, the story goes back even further.

As a teenager attending camp in the Adirondacks, a counselor took the time to invest in him personally during a pivotal moment. That week changed the trajectory of his life.

Years later, he returned to that same camp as a leader, eventually becoming part of the team responsible for creating the kinds of experiences that had impacted him so deeply.

The details of our stories are different, but they lead to the same conclusion: camp matters because people matter.

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The Biggest Challenges Camps Face Today

As Lauren asked about the challenges camp leaders face, several themes surfaced repeatedly.

Moving Beyond Scarcity Thinking

One of the most significant barriers to growth isn’t a marketing tactic or a budget constraint.

It’s mindset.

Many camp leaders operate with limited resources and face difficult decisions every day. Because of that reality, investing in growth can feel risky.

When resources are tight, it’s tempting to keep doing what has always been done and hope for different results.

But sustainable growth often begins when leaders move from a scarcity mindset to a stewardship mindset—viewing marketing, systems, and strategic investments as tools that help extend the camp’s mission.

The Limits of Referrals and Repeat Business

Most camps rely heavily on referrals and returning guests.

And they should.

Returning campers and enthusiastic referrals are signs that the camp experience is delivering real value.

But referrals alone rarely create predictable growth.

Healthy camps need a balance between retaining existing guests and consistently introducing new families and groups to the camp experience.

A strong referral culture creates stability. Intentional marketing creates opportunity.

Together, they create sustainability.

Measuring What Matters

Another challenge many camps face is simply knowing what’s working.

Without meaningful data, growth often feels like guesswork.

It’s difficult to know whether a website improvement, advertising campaign, email sequence, or outreach effort is actually producing results.

As we discussed during the episode, leaders need systems that help them see what’s generating inquiries, registrations, bookings, and revenue.

“If you don’t measure what matters, you won’t be able to manage what’s happening.”

Good data doesn’t remove uncertainty entirely, but it helps leaders make decisions with confidence instead of relying on assumptions.

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Making Camp Easier for New Families to Understand

One of the most practical parts of the conversation focused on camp websites and how camps communicate their value.

Designing for Strangers

Many camp websites work well for returning families.

The challenge is that not everyone visiting a camp website already understands camp.

Some visitors have never attended camp themselves. Others may have heard about camp from a friend or neighbor but know very little about what the experience actually involves.

Those visitors arrive with different questions.

Who is this camp for?

What makes it different?

Will my child be safe?

What will they gain from the experience?

Why should our family consider camp in the first place?

Effective websites answer those questions clearly and quickly.

Rather than assuming visitors already understand camp culture, successful camps help newcomers understand why the experience matters.

Benefits Over Features

Another common marketing mistake is focusing too heavily on features.

It’s easy to talk about cabins, dining halls, zip lines, climbing walls, and waterfront activities.

Those things matter.

But what families ultimately care about is what those experiences produce.

A climbing wall isn’t just a climbing wall.

It’s confidence.

It’s resilience.

It’s the moment a child discovers they can do something they didn’t think was possible.

When camps tell stories about transformation instead of simply listing amenities, families begin to understand the deeper value of the experience.

“Speak from the benefit, not the feature.”

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When Marketing Feels Overwhelming

If there’s one thing we know about camp leaders, it’s that most already have full plates.

Marketing often gets added to a list that already includes staffing, programming, facilities, finances, fundraising, parent communication, and countless other responsibilities.

So when Lauren asked what we’d say to leaders who feel overwhelmed, our answer wasn’t complicated.

Start by taking a breath.

You don’t have to solve everything at once.

Start Small

Many leaders feel pressure to improve their website, launch social media campaigns, invest in advertising, create videos, improve follow-up systems, and redesign communications all at the same time.

That pressure can create paralysis.

Instead, focus on one or two areas that will have the greatest impact.

Build momentum through small wins.

Improve one process.

Fix one bottleneck.

Strengthen one communication channel.

Then build from there.

“You don’t have to solve this all overnight.”

Build a Plan

Growth becomes much easier when there’s a clear roadmap.

Whether it’s summer camp registrations, retreat bookings, outdoor education programs, or year-round occupancy, every camp has opportunities that can create meaningful growth.

The key is identifying the opportunities that matter most and creating a plan to pursue them intentionally.

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Why We Started the Grow Your Camp Podcast

As the conversation turned toward the podcast itself, Lauren asked why we decided to launch Grow Your Camp.

The answer is simple.

We want to help more camps.

Our teams can only work directly with a limited number of organizations each year, but the challenges camp leaders face are often shared across the industry.

The podcast allows us to share practical ideas, real-world examples, and proven strategies with a much broader audience.

Every episode includes a practical marketing tip that camp leaders can implement immediately.

But some of our favorite episodes are the interviews with camp leaders who have successfully navigated growth challenges and are willing to share what they’ve learned.

Those conversations provide valuable insight for everyone involved.

One example is Episode 7, where we explored how one camp increased new camper registrations by five times through a surprisingly simple improvement to their follow-up process.

The lessons are practical, actionable, and often more accessible than people expect.

You’re Not Alone

As the conversation came to a close, Lauren asked what we’d want every discouraged camp leader to hear.

The answer was immediate.

“You’re not alone.”

Camp leadership can be isolating.

The responsibilities are significant, and the challenges can feel overwhelming.

But one of the strengths of the camp industry is its willingness to share ideas, experiences, and support.

Whether through organizations like ACA and 3CA, peer relationships, conferences, podcasts, or local connections, camp leaders have opportunities to learn from others who understand the journey.

Finding your people matters.

Growth becomes easier when you’re learning alongside others who have faced similar challenges and discovered solutions worth sharing.

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What This Means for Your Camp

The conversation with Lauren reinforced something we believe deeply.

Marketing is not separate from mission.

When done well, marketing helps more people discover experiences that can genuinely change lives.

It helps camps fill beds, strengthen programs, support staff, increase sustainability, and ultimately expand their impact.

The goal isn’t simply growth.

The goal is creating more opportunities for transformation.

If you’re looking for encouragement, practical ideas, or a reminder that you’re not navigating these challenges alone, we encourage you to listen to the full CampWire episode.

And if you’re already part of the Grow Your Camp community, thank you for being on the journey with us.

Because when camps grow, their impact grows too.