From Empty Beds to a Waiting List
The Real Changes That Took One Camp from Survival to Growth
If you’ve ever looked at your calendar and wondered how you’re going to fill more beds, this episode hits close to home.
Many camps aren’t struggling because they lack value—they’re struggling because the right people aren’t finding them, or they’re not getting the clarity they need to take the next step.
That was the reality at Cross Oaks Camp and Retreat Center not long ago.
In this episode, Mark sits down with Executive Director John Schwieterman to unpack what actually changed. Not theory. Not fluff. A real story of going from scattered efforts and cold calls… to consistent inbound leads, an 88% close rate, and more demand than the camp can currently handle.
Along the way, they break down the specific shifts in marketing, systems, and leadership that made the difference—and what other camp leaders can take from it.
Quick Camp Marketing Tip: Answer the Questions They Haven’t Asked
One of the most common issues across camp websites is surprisingly simple:
They leave too many questions unanswered.
When a retreat planner lands on your site, they’re trying to quickly figure out things like:
Is this camp a good fit for our group?
What’s the experience going to be like?
What kind of lodging is available?
How does pricing work?
What’s the process to actually book?
If those answers aren’t easy to find, most people won’t reach out to ask.
They’ll just keep looking.
That’s why camps that generate more inquiries aren’t always the ones with more traffic—they’re often just the ones doing a better job answering questions upfront.
A practical way to improve this:
Talk to your guest services team
Identify the top 5–10 questions they answer all the time
Make sure those answers are clearly addressed on your website
Add or strengthen an FAQ section on key pages
When you remove uncertainty, you build confidence. And when someone feels confident your camp is a good fit, they’re far more likely to reach out.
“If they can’t quickly find the answers on your website, they don’t reach out—they just keep looking.”
A Camp Story That Starts in Fifth Grade
Like many camp leaders, John’s story started long before he stepped into leadership.
He first encountered camp as a fifth grader at a church retreat—and that experience stuck. It’s where he found his faith. It’s where he built friendships. Eventually, it’s even where he met his wife.
Camp wasn’t just an event. It became part of his story.
He remembers counting down the days each year, making paper chains just to track how close he was to camp season. That anticipation, that sense of connection—it never really left.
And now, years later, he’s helping create those same experiences for others.
“If I could just get people here, I knew God could do the rest.”
From Survival Mode to Sustainable Growth
Walking Into a Camp at a Crossroads
When John stepped into his role at Cross Oaks, the camp was at a critical decision point.
Like many camps today, it was facing the reality that continuing as-is wasn’t sustainable. Leadership had to decide whether to invest in growth—or risk shutting the doors.
There were strong people and good foundations in place. But what was missing was a clear path forward.
And in the early days, that meant John was doing just about everything himself.
The First Attempt: Cold Calling for Growth
With a need to fill the calendar, John turned to what he knew—sales.
He built a list of 1,500–2,500 churches, schools, and organizations within driving distance. Then he started dialing.
Hundreds of calls later, the results were modest:
Around 600 calls made
Just 3–4 groups booked
It wasn’t a failure—but it wasn’t scalable.
“I probably dialed 600 groups… and got three or four bookings.”
The bigger issue wasn’t just the results—it was the time and energy required to get them.
The Breaking Point: You Can’t Do Everything Alone
At one point, John found himself cooking for a group, running activities, and trying to manage operations—all in the same day.
In the middle of that, he missed a call from a potential group that was ready to book.
That moment made something clear:
Even when opportunities were there, he didn’t have the capacity to capture them.
Growth wasn’t just about effort anymore. It required systems.
The Shift to Inbound: Website and Lead Generation
That realization led to a major shift—from chasing leads to attracting them.
Instead of relying on cold outreach, the focus moved to:
Improving the website so it clearly answered key questions
Building a stronger structure for how information was presented
Investing in SEO so the camp could be found in search
Running Google Ads to reach people actively looking for retreat venues
The goal wasn’t just visibility—it was visibility with the right people at the right time.
And the results came faster than expected.
Leads started coming in. Calls started happening. And instead of interrupting people, John was talking to people who were already interested.
Better Leads, Better Conversations, Better Results
The difference in those conversations was immediate.
Instead of trying to convince someone to consider a retreat, John was now talking to people who were already searching for one.
That shift led to a major outcome:
An 88% close rate.
“I thought I became a great salesman… but really we just had the right systems in place.”
The process became simpler:
A potential guest finds the camp online
They reach out already interested
They schedule a tour
Once they see the property, the decision is often easy
Instead of pushing for sales, John was simply helping people take the next step.
The Results: Growth, Revenue, and Demand
The numbers tell the story:
Revenue grew from around $475,000 to a projected $780,000
Marketing investment produced at least a 10x return
Demand increased so much that the camp had to turn away over $400,000 in potential bookings due to limited capacity
That last point is important.
Growth solved one problem—but revealed another.
The Hidden Challenge: Growth Creates Pressure
More bookings meant more complexity.
More groups meant more operational strain.
And for the first time, the camp had to seriously ask:
Who do we want to be?
What kind of growth are we pursuing?
Do we have the systems and space to support it?
They’re now exploring expansion, team structure, and long-term strategy—not just survival.
Leadership Lessons That Made the Difference
Several key shifts made all of this possible.
Ask for Help Sooner
One of the biggest turning points was simply reaching out for help.
Letting go of the idea that everything had to be done alone unlocked faster progress.
“It was surprising how easy things got once I asked for help.”
Invest to Grow
Marketing wasn’t treated as an expense—it was treated as an investment.
And that mindset shift made it possible to build something sustainable.
Get Clear on Direction
Growth didn’t just happen—it was guided.
Defining what the camp could become—and deciding to pursue it—helped align decisions and priorities.
What This Means for Your Camp
If there’s one takeaway from this episode, it’s this:
Growth doesn’t come from doing more of the same—it comes from doing the right things differently.
For many camps, that starts with:
Making your website clearer and more helpful
Answering the questions people are already asking
Shifting from outbound effort to inbound opportunity
Building systems that support growth—not just react to it
Because at the end of the day, the goal isn’t just fuller calendars.
It’s creating more opportunities for the kind of experiences that only happen at camp.
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